WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE has become a space for asking big questions — like how to reconcile creative freedom with the need for stability, how to preserve the shimmering truth of self in high capitalism, and where exactly, in this ad and algorithm-driven landscape, we all belong.
Welcome to Let’s Talk, a new series of conversations exploring the struggle and beauty of being alive. Our country needs more healing spaces and experiences, especially now, and since we can’t find them where we usually might, by gathering in person, my hope is that Let’s Talk may meet that need in some small way.
This week, it’s a true pleasure to introduce you to my dear friend, Travis. Join us for a conversation about fear and joy in quarantine, Black Lives Matter, and his experience as a Black man who feels more in harm’s way walking through his own neighborhood than he does in a global pandemic.
Travis LeMont Ballenger is a generative artist. He has produced for a number of companies, including Arena Stage, Hip-Hop Theater Festival, The Drama League of New York, and The Old Globe Theater, where he currently serves as Associate Artistic Director. Travis also worked as a producer for Market Road Films, primarily creating films for National Geographic. In August, Travis will start as a producer with Lia Vollack Productions, a New York-based commercial producing company.
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Lauren: Travis, I’m so glad you’re here. How are you doing today? We've all been isolating for two and a half months now, and I'm wondering how you're feeling in this moment.
Travis: Well, I'm a mixed bag, as I have been this entire time. I've had some positive things happen today, and I have fun things to look forward to. And then I also found myself frustrated and upset about other things that happened. I'm just a mixed bag. I'm very tired — everything with George Floyd and working through that in the moment of this pandemic, for example. But I was also able to get contacts for the first time and put them in my eyes. So there was a win.
Lauren: That's absolutely a win. Talking about those more difficult emotions makes me wonder: Has living through this experience, in all its complexity, made you feel fearful in any way?
Travis: Yes, definitely. There are moments when I'm afraid of what is to come, because this is obviously not the end. There's something on the other side. I'm not a paranoid person, but this time has taught me to question my hope and my glass-half-full nature. Maybe I need to be better prepared. Maybe I need to always assume that something else is coming. I also live alone in a city that I'm still very new to. That has been terrifying because if I get sick, I'll be by myself. Also, I've never experienced such silence for so long, and that has been both illuminating and invigorating — and sometimes terrifying.
Lauren: How has that been illuminating for you?
Travis: I am getting to know myself again. This past year, I traveled a lot and worked nonstop, and this spring, I was supposed to be entering another situation where I did the same. Having this time to just sit with myself and re-experiment with how to speak to and care for myself has been illuminating. I've learned that I am a person who desperately needs a routine. I need structure and systems in my life, and it turns out I can meet that challenge and give myself structure and systems. I'm really proud of that. At first, I felt a little ashamed that I put so much stock into things like waking up at 6:30 AM, always working out and doing this and that. But then I realized, if I don't do these things and stick to this plan, I will fall apart. So I stick to the plan. That's healthy, not painful.
Lauren: I admire that because I'm not someone who comes to structure and discipline naturally. I seek a certain creative freedom at all times, but I've also learned that I need structure to stay on track. I haven’t been as successful at finding it, so yeah, that's a major achievement.
Travis: It's hard. In my life growing up, I didn't have a ton of structure. It was all freedom to some extent, but in that, it felt oppressive. So I've been able to give structure to myself and say, no, you're going to get up and do this, because this is going to make you feel good. It will help you sleep better. It's going to...
Lauren: ...be worth it on the other side.
Travis: Yeah. And you know, I'm still holding hope that I'll get at least a week this summer in a skimpy bikini on a beach. I'm preparing for that whenever it comes.
Lauren: From your lips! Okay. Keep me posted. I think I need that, too.
These fears and challenges have been so present for all of us lately, which is one reason why these conversations are important — so we can feel a sense of camaraderie and support. But along with that, have you found unexpected sources of joy these past two months?
Travis: This is going to sound bizarre. But with George Floyd and all of the other Black people who have been killed by the police or others during this pandemic, I’m seeing my white friends pay more attention. They’re using language I didn't hear during Trayvon or Ferguson — about anti-racism or what it means to really hear someone. I think it's directly connected to this pandemic.
This does not sound like a moment of joy, but for me, it actually is. There is something about discovering that the systems we have in place don't always work or protect you. I think white people realizing that now allows them to hear that these systems have not been working for a very long time; that there are other people who have been trampled by the same government that was built to protect us; and that what we need to do is redesign these systems. We need to change the way things are structured so more people can be protected.
Lauren: As your friend, I'm so happy to hear you're finding some joy there. It sounds like it’s joyful to discover that all the fights up to this point, all the speaking up for your life mattering is finally being heard — like maybe each conversation pushed a bit further until finally, the pandemic put us over the tipping point.
Travis: Absolutely. How can it not, right? We didn't have to get here, all locked inside of our homes for the foreseeable future, but we did. So now we're all analyzing the structures that led to this. We're looking at what's working and what's broken. I think people are actually getting better at that. Feeling it impact them personally changes how they see it impacting other people.
Lauren: It really does. So many white Americans are experiencing what it feels like to be let down by the system for the first time. There's no going back from that. I wish they'd had the empathy to consider it before, but if that's a positive we can take from this, then...
Travis: ...here we are. Yes.
Lauren: I love the way you're pulling out that silver lining. I’ve been thinking nonstop about the protests in Minneapolis and around the world this week. It's striking to me that Black Americans are being forced, in this moment, to choose between their survival in two different ways. They can put themselves at risk in terms of the pandemic and go to a protest, or they can risk not protesting, which is another means of not standing up for their own survival. They have to choose between a deadly virus and deadly police officers. It seems there comes a time when there is no other answer but to put your actual body on the line. Do you have thoughts on this?
Travis: I have more fear of being killed by the police than I do of dying from the coronavirus. I feel like I am much more in harm's way when I walk through my upper-middle class, all-white neighborhood in Hillcrest, San Diego than I am in the pandemic. So I don't think there is an option — we have to protest.
I also think people are sitting in their homes with less work to do. Things have slowed down. We have more time to think and consider change. Everyone feels angry, as we should be — I mean, just enraged. We're enraged for a myriad of reasons — the deaths of Black people by agents of the state, but also having this happen while we're locked in our homes. We're all looking for ways to channel that rage. So I don't think we have a choice. We have to do it.
Lauren: Yeah. Right. Maybe in a way we've already answered this, but I want to ask you anyway. A lot of people have been saying, "I just want to go back to normal." But going back to "normal” is not possible, because the whole world is different now. The only constant is change, and we can only move forward. So, if a new world order could emerge after this pandemic, and we could be part of creating it, what's the's the first thing you would like to see as part of its foundation?
Travis: That's a great question. For me, it has to do with the health of all people, in really big terms. If we can learn anything from this, it's that life is precious, and that everyone's life is precious. But some people's lives have mattered less than other people's. How do we ensure that all people’s lives matter? How do we ensure that by looking at the lives that matter less? I mean that in terms of Black lives matter. And also healthcare. And housing rights.
These systems are all connected. We weren’t able to see their interconnectivity until some programs came to a stop, but now it’s more obvious that we can’t fix this little piece over here or duct tape that piece over there — we have to look at the whole thing and ask how to make it better. If we can start by ensuring that everyone is living fully, then wherever we go will be good.
Lauren: Yeah. I love how you distilled that. If we can get this one fundamental thing right, all other decisions will be a natural progression from that. Every living thing matters. For me, people are critical, but it extends to all life — because as we lose biodiversity, and however many species go extinct every day now, I'd like to see us value all life on the planet and take action that backs that up with integrity, care, and thoughtfulness.
Travis: If we need a human-centered reason behind it, there would probably be no Covid-19 if global warming wasn’t happening. These things are connected. If we don’t take care of the planet we're living on and the species we're living with...
Lauren: Exactly. Deforestation brings wildlife closer to humans, so we're going to see more and more crossover of disease. We should probably all save our masks, if you know what I mean.
Travis: Yes. This is definitely not going to be the last virus we see. And I didn't realize how unprepared for it we were. Even Barack Obama tried to tell us we weren't ready. How were we not prepared?
Lauren: I know. This takes my mind back to what you were saying earlier about hope. Some of us find it within ourselves — every election, every situation — to dig up another shred of hope, and just offer it forward, palms upturned. Because all I can do is hope for the best for other people, for my country, and for this planet. Then it feels like someone takes their heel — from a big, heavy boot — and stomps on it, and also like, grinds the heel back and forth. But you said something about hope earlier — what were you saying? It was so beautiful.
Travis: Well, my hope has been tested during this, and I've been frightened, but hope is, to some extent, a revolutionary act. Believing that things will get better requires us to make them better. Believing what we're doing will make things good is a revolutionary act. I don't like to think in terms of them against us, but for the powers that be, it's easier to control and dictate when there is no hope. So there’s something brave and courageous about making that choice.
Lauren: Yes, they need us to be disempowered. And we didn't necessarily realize how brave the act of hope was when we took it for granted. The more it gets stomped out, the braver hope gets, the deeper we have to dig, and the more we have to find like-minded people who can help us keep going when we feel fearful or overwhelmed.
Travis: When Barack Obama became President, I remember going crazy on the streets of Washington, D.C. and saying to someone, "This is it! Now the engines of the machine are working for good!" Somehow, I forgot that we still had things to do. We've got to clock in and do our part.
Lauren: That definitely resonates, especially after having to show up over and over again these past four years — to make the calls, donate, do whatever we can. We have a long road ahead, but we'll do it together.
Travis: Yes, we will. My goal is to find as many moments of joy as humanly possible, because we're going to need those to pick ourselves up.
Lauren: You're so right. I feel like we could talk about finding good for all humanity forever, because don’t we both have some Aquarius going on?
Travis: We do. This is very Aquarian conversation. But I found out the reading that told me I was a triple Aquarius was wrong! Now I'm a double Aquarius with a Leo thrown in somewhere. My entire identity was built around being a triple Aquarius, so I'm a little upset, but here we are.
Lauren: I get that. But I've known you for almost 20 years now, and one thing I've always associated with you is that when you walk into a room, you literally light it up, and you bring this palpable joy and enthusiasm. That might be a little bit of your Leo shining through.
Travis: So you're saying I shouldn't fight it — I should just embrace the Leo?
Lauren: Possibly. The creativity and joy and enthusiasm! Thank you for sharing that with us here. Okay, one more question. If you heard tonight that the pandemic was miraculously over and everyone had been vaccinated, who is the first person you would rush to see tomorrow?
Travis: Oh, that's a great question. If time and space were no issue... I have this group of friends, five guys in New York, who are very, very close. Sometimes we're too close. But we have not been together since before this happened, and that has felt emotionally damaging. I just want to sit in a room with them, like we used to, cuddling on a couch, all five of us piled on top of each other. That's what I would do. I would pile on a couch with those boys and just be.
Lauren: That sounds amazing. I cannot wait till we can do that. Okay. Hope and joy. We will make it through.
Travis: We're going to do it. We're going to be fine. I truly believe some positive and amazing things are going to come out of this. We're starting to see seeds of that now, with the demonstrations and agitation and demands people are making of their government. I think it’s the beginning of something great. So I remain hopeful, and maybe it's stupid of me, but I’ll try to hold on to that.
Lauren: It’s not stupid at all. Yes, let’s do it together. Thank you so much, Travis. You're the best.
If you enjoyed this, click the tiny heart and share it with a friend. *Music is “Vuelve a la Luz” by Silva de Alegria, via CC.
Hope Is a Revolutionary Act with Broadway Producer Travis LeMont Ballenger